I think the problem is that UI for making api calls is such a simple problem that you can’t make supernormal profits off it. A decent product could command a small fee. But VCs, as the Grapes of Wrath says of banks, cannot accept moderate incomes on a human scale.
Perhaps the bigger problem is that there is a financial layer that exists on the assumption that another productive sector (farms, computers) can somewhat reliably produce outsized profits. We’re at the point where just because it’s computerized there’s no reason to believe a product will unlock the massive order of magnitude productivity gains that will make people want to pay for it or spend all their time staring at it.
curl would be fine for one-off requests. If the intent is to chain multiple requests and share them across a team, something like hurl would be a better option.
skatkov
I was genually horrified how big a company running postman is. I had no clue what they are doing there, but I noticed that it's getting harder and harder to use.
Nowadays, I just use curl/yaak (but mostly just curl).
Relax
I thought it was just an open source tool someone made on the side. Checked out out the website after your comment, and on the about page: "Postman recently closed a $225 million Series D investment round..."
I don't even know how to reason about this.
hoistbypetard
For figuring out how to use an API, Bruno is the most common thing I use and see others use. To the extent that I've noticed any lack of polish, it hasn't mattered. But I also haven't really noticed it.
When it gets to the writing and running tests part, I just write it into my system tests. (Usually using pytest on my stuff, but I don't see a postman-like thing having a role in many kinds of automated tests...)
When I'm doing pentesting, it's kind of the same thing. I'll use the shiny client to iterate and figure out how the API works, but for the real tests, I'm either bring scripts or putting it together using a browser's developer tools on the fly. Depending on the test it's frequently the latter thing, 'cause it's a pain to get custom tools into certain engagements.
I don't see them as abandoned so much as just not worth building out much more than they are. They're certainly not worth postman's or insomnia's paywalls.
dhruvp
Interesting ! Maybe try out https://voiden.md sometime. We designed in a different way than Bruno.
Open-sourced it some days back.
einacio
I have only seen the json collections, and some screenshots or recordings from some colleagues using it, I can't believe you need a login or pay for it
Corbin
Zero login wall. The tool functions completely offline without forced account creation or mandatory cloud synchronization.
Postman only exists because of this artificial moat. For offensive work, I use ZAP; for building backends, I don't use a proxy at all, but curl, Firefox, and a backend-specific test harness. There is no good justification for using paid tools for this purpose; the marginal cost of a high-quality proxy is already zero.
dhruvp
https://voiden.md/ has no login - we do check that box and also not dependent on cloud.
c12
I’ve taken to using curl for api testing, for things that require more automation e.g. obtaining a token for authentication before hitting the required endpoint I write bash scripts.
Postman is a pretty interface but ultimately using curl and learning enough shell scripting to get by is likely the better solution for most.
LucasPickering
This is precisely the reason I started working on Slumber. Insomnia just got a little too shitty for me to put up with. It doesn't check all the boxes that the post asks for, but it is file-system centric and intended for VCS-based collaboration. It's a TUI though, so it doesn't help if you're attached to using a GUI :P
sinclairtarget
I love slumber! I’m a big fan and use it almost every work day
etler
These are not particularly complicated tools either. I'd make one myself if I weren't ridiculously busy.
posix_cowboy
the httpie cli tool is pretty cool, and open-source, under something resembling a BSD license.
ptman
If you need GUI, I think https://yaak.app/ is one of the better alternatives.
I keep wanting to use hurl, but the lack of IDE support is a real bummer. So I either use httpyac or rest-client mostly these days.
gschier
As the original creator of Insomnia, this post hit hard. It was tough watching the tool I spent years building degrade since accepting an acquisition offer in 2019.
After going down a very similar process as the author started over and built Yaak [1]
100% open source under MIT
Paid license to use the prebuilt binaries for commercial use
Built with Tauri (1/3 of the code is Rust)
Sync is done through local files and an integrated Git UI
Local encryption to securely share your stuff
Full-featured plugin system for custom auth, template functions, etc
MCP server support to control via Claude/etc
Supports REST, GraphQL, gRPC, Websocket, and SSE
Import OpenAPI/Postman/Insomnia/Curl (extensible via plugins)
I'd love some feedback if you get a chance to try it.
Oh neat, I liked Insomnia but then it progressively started introducing accounts and workspaces and all this other "stuff" that wasn't "I just want to make an API request".
I tried out Bruno a bit after they launched but I found it a little too wonky, with its custom bru format and that.
I'll be looking forward to giving Yaak a spin!
hoistbypetard
Do you have a quick answer in your pocket (even one that you could just link to) for why someone might rather use yaak than bruno?
siddhartha_golu
I switched to Yaak almost a year ago, before the repo was even public. Happy user since then. Great tool!
Years before postman existed, I made a socket client UI in java swing, which I used to debug the response of PHP applications.
Then I wanted to script such tests and found out this cli application called curl which did everything I needed.
I felt embarassed for having built a UI for something that clearly didn't need one.
I guess it's all a matter of marketing.
sentry
I had a coworker who used the Google Chrome App version of Postman. It gained the "Chrome Apps are now deprecated!" banner and he continued using it fine for like a year after deprecation. I wonder if he still uses it to this day.
rak
No mention of RapidAPI on macOS? used to be called Paw. I've preferred it over Postman and others for years.
quindarius
Been using HURL and haven’t looked back
mayas
Tools are becoming less significant over time, while developers are increasingly worried about making a living, since anyone can create something nowadays. The space feels crowded and unclear, making it much harder for real quality to shine.
I think the problem is that UI for making api calls is such a simple problem that you can’t make supernormal profits off it. A decent product could command a small fee. But VCs, as the Grapes of Wrath says of banks, cannot accept moderate incomes on a human scale.
Perhaps the bigger problem is that there is a financial layer that exists on the assumption that another productive sector (farms, computers) can somewhat reliably produce outsized profits. We’re at the point where just because it’s computerized there’s no reason to believe a product will unlock the massive order of magnitude productivity gains that will make people want to pay for it or spend all their time staring at it.
curl would be fine for one-off requests. If the intent is to chain multiple requests and share them across a team, something like hurl would be a better option.
skatkov
I was genually horrified how big a company running postman is. I had no clue what they are doing there, but I noticed that it's getting harder and harder to use.
Nowadays, I just use curl/yaak (but mostly just curl).
Relax
I thought it was just an open source tool someone made on the side. Checked out out the website after your comment, and on the about page: "Postman recently closed a $225 million Series D investment round..."
I don't even know how to reason about this.
hoistbypetard
For figuring out how to use an API, Bruno is the most common thing I use and see others use. To the extent that I've noticed any lack of polish, it hasn't mattered. But I also haven't really noticed it.
When it gets to the writing and running tests part, I just write it into my system tests. (Usually using pytest on my stuff, but I don't see a postman-like thing having a role in many kinds of automated tests...)
When I'm doing pentesting, it's kind of the same thing. I'll use the shiny client to iterate and figure out how the API works, but for the real tests, I'm either bring scripts or putting it together using a browser's developer tools on the fly. Depending on the test it's frequently the latter thing, 'cause it's a pain to get custom tools into certain engagements.
I don't see them as abandoned so much as just not worth building out much more than they are. They're certainly not worth postman's or insomnia's paywalls.
dhruvp
Interesting ! Maybe try out https://voiden.md sometime. We designed in a different way than Bruno.
Open-sourced it some days back.
einacio
I have only seen the json collections, and some screenshots or recordings from some colleagues using it, I can't believe you need a login or pay for it
Corbin
Zero login wall. The tool functions completely offline without forced account creation or mandatory cloud synchronization.
Postman only exists because of this artificial moat. For offensive work, I use ZAP; for building backends, I don't use a proxy at all, but curl, Firefox, and a backend-specific test harness. There is no good justification for using paid tools for this purpose; the marginal cost of a high-quality proxy is already zero.
dhruvp
https://voiden.md/ has no login - we do check that box and also not dependent on cloud.
c12
I’ve taken to using curl for api testing, for things that require more automation e.g. obtaining a token for authentication before hitting the required endpoint I write bash scripts.
Postman is a pretty interface but ultimately using curl and learning enough shell scripting to get by is likely the better solution for most.
LucasPickering
This is precisely the reason I started working on Slumber. Insomnia just got a little too shitty for me to put up with. It doesn't check all the boxes that the post asks for, but it is file-system centric and intended for VCS-based collaboration. It's a TUI though, so it doesn't help if you're attached to using a GUI :P
sinclairtarget
I love slumber! I’m a big fan and use it almost every work day
etler
These are not particularly complicated tools either. I'd make one myself if I weren't ridiculously busy.
posix_cowboy
the httpie cli tool is pretty cool, and open-source, under something resembling a BSD license.
ptman
If you need GUI, I think https://yaak.app/ is one of the better alternatives.
I keep wanting to use hurl, but the lack of IDE support is a real bummer. So I either use httpyac or rest-client mostly these days.
gschier
As the original creator of Insomnia, this post hit hard. It was tough watching the tool I spent years building degrade since accepting an acquisition offer in 2019.
After going down a very similar process as the author started over and built Yaak [1]
100% open source under MIT
Paid license to use the prebuilt binaries for commercial use
Built with Tauri (1/3 of the code is Rust)
Sync is done through local files and an integrated Git UI
Local encryption to securely share your stuff
Full-featured plugin system for custom auth, template functions, etc
MCP server support to control via Claude/etc
Supports REST, GraphQL, gRPC, Websocket, and SSE
Import OpenAPI/Postman/Insomnia/Curl (extensible via plugins)
I'd love some feedback if you get a chance to try it.
Oh neat, I liked Insomnia but then it progressively started introducing accounts and workspaces and all this other "stuff" that wasn't "I just want to make an API request".
I tried out Bruno a bit after they launched but I found it a little too wonky, with its custom bru format and that.
I'll be looking forward to giving Yaak a spin!
hoistbypetard
Do you have a quick answer in your pocket (even one that you could just link to) for why someone might rather use yaak than bruno?
siddhartha_golu
I switched to Yaak almost a year ago, before the repo was even public. Happy user since then. Great tool!
Years before postman existed, I made a socket client UI in java swing, which I used to debug the response of PHP applications.
Then I wanted to script such tests and found out this cli application called curl which did everything I needed.
I felt embarassed for having built a UI for something that clearly didn't need one.
I guess it's all a matter of marketing.
sentry
I had a coworker who used the Google Chrome App version of Postman. It gained the "Chrome Apps are now deprecated!" banner and he continued using it fine for like a year after deprecation. I wonder if he still uses it to this day.
rak
No mention of RapidAPI on macOS? used to be called Paw. I've preferred it over Postman and others for years.
quindarius
Been using HURL and haven’t looked back
mayas
Tools are becoming less significant over time, while developers are increasingly worried about making a living, since anyone can create something nowadays. The space feels crowded and unclear, making it much harder for real quality to shine.
Something that I worked on to solve this : https://github.com/VoidenHQ/voiden
Respectfully, the web page is much better than the readme at explaining the big idea here. You might want to put some of that in the readme.
https://justuse.org/curl/
I think the problem is that UI for making api calls is such a simple problem that you can’t make supernormal profits off it. A decent product could command a small fee. But VCs, as the Grapes of Wrath says of banks, cannot accept moderate incomes on a human scale.
Perhaps the bigger problem is that there is a financial layer that exists on the assumption that another productive sector (farms, computers) can somewhat reliably produce outsized profits. We’re at the point where just because it’s computerized there’s no reason to believe a product will unlock the massive order of magnitude productivity gains that will make people want to pay for it or spend all their time staring at it.
I always have hope when I click on that link, but I can read that they don't owe me shit https://justuse.org/#:~:text=More%20coming%20soon%2E%20Or%20not%2E%20I%20don%27t%20owe%20you%20shit
This author and Carson need to collaborate. Or don't, they don't owe me :-D
https://github.com/ducaale/xh
curl is great and I use it a lot, but it's kind of a pain to use JSON APIs with it.
Something I tried : https://github.com/VoidenHQ/voiden
curl would be fine for one-off requests. If the intent is to chain multiple requests and share them across a team, something like hurl would be a better option.
I was genually horrified how big a company running postman is. I had no clue what they are doing there, but I noticed that it's getting harder and harder to use.
Nowadays, I just use curl/yaak (but mostly just curl).
I thought it was just an open source tool someone made on the side. Checked out out the website after your comment, and on the about page: "Postman recently closed a $225 million Series D investment round..."
I don't even know how to reason about this.
For figuring out how to use an API, Bruno is the most common thing I use and see others use. To the extent that I've noticed any lack of polish, it hasn't mattered. But I also haven't really noticed it.
When it gets to the writing and running tests part, I just write it into my system tests. (Usually using pytest on my stuff, but I don't see a postman-like thing having a role in many kinds of automated tests...)
When I'm doing pentesting, it's kind of the same thing. I'll use the shiny client to iterate and figure out how the API works, but for the real tests, I'm either bring scripts or putting it together using a browser's developer tools on the fly. Depending on the test it's frequently the latter thing, 'cause it's a pain to get custom tools into certain engagements.
I don't see them as abandoned so much as just not worth building out much more than they are. They're certainly not worth postman's or insomnia's paywalls.
Interesting ! Maybe try out https://voiden.md sometime. We designed in a different way than Bruno. Open-sourced it some days back.
I have only seen the json collections, and some screenshots or recordings from some colleagues using it, I can't believe you need a login or pay for it
Postman only exists because of this artificial moat. For offensive work, I use ZAP; for building backends, I don't use a proxy at all, but
curl, Firefox, and a backend-specific test harness. There is no good justification for using paid tools for this purpose; the marginal cost of a high-quality proxy is already zero.https://voiden.md/ has no login - we do check that box and also not dependent on cloud.
I’ve taken to using curl for api testing, for things that require more automation e.g. obtaining a token for authentication before hitting the required endpoint I write bash scripts.
Postman is a pretty interface but ultimately using curl and learning enough shell scripting to get by is likely the better solution for most.
This is precisely the reason I started working on Slumber. Insomnia just got a little too shitty for me to put up with. It doesn't check all the boxes that the post asks for, but it is file-system centric and intended for VCS-based collaboration. It's a TUI though, so it doesn't help if you're attached to using a GUI :P
I love slumber! I’m a big fan and use it almost every work day
These are not particularly complicated tools either. I'd make one myself if I weren't ridiculously busy.
the httpie cli tool is pretty cool, and open-source, under something resembling a BSD license.
If you need GUI, I think https://yaak.app/ is one of the better alternatives.
But I've been using the .http file format in git with e.g. https://httpyac.github.io/ to execute.
I keep wanting to use hurl, but the lack of IDE support is a real bummer. So I either use httpyac or rest-client mostly these days.
As the original creator of Insomnia, this post hit hard. It was tough watching the tool I spent years building degrade since accepting an acquisition offer in 2019.
After going down a very similar process as the author started over and built Yaak [1]
I'd love some feedback if you get a chance to try it.
[1] https://yaak.app
Oh neat, I liked Insomnia but then it progressively started introducing accounts and workspaces and all this other "stuff" that wasn't "I just want to make an API request".
I tried out Bruno a bit after they launched but I found it a little too wonky, with its custom bru format and that.
I'll be looking forward to giving Yaak a spin!
Do you have a quick answer in your pocket (even one that you could just link to) for why someone might rather use yaak than bruno?
I switched to Yaak almost a year ago, before the repo was even public. Happy user since then. Great tool!
I've always just used https://github.com/pashky/restclient.el.
Years before postman existed, I made a socket client UI in java swing, which I used to debug the response of PHP applications. Then I wanted to script such tests and found out this cli application called curl which did everything I needed.
I felt embarassed for having built a UI for something that clearly didn't need one.
I guess it's all a matter of marketing.
I had a coworker who used the Google Chrome App version of Postman. It gained the "Chrome Apps are now deprecated!" banner and he continued using it fine for like a year after deprecation. I wonder if he still uses it to this day.
No mention of RapidAPI on macOS? used to be called Paw. I've preferred it over Postman and others for years.
Been using HURL and haven’t looked back
Tools are becoming less significant over time, while developers are increasingly worried about making a living, since anyone can create something nowadays. The space feels crowded and unclear, making it much harder for real quality to shine.
Something that I worked on to solve this : https://github.com/VoidenHQ/voiden
Respectfully, the web page is much better than the readme at explaining the big idea here. You might want to put some of that in the readme.
https://justuse.org/curl/
I think the problem is that UI for making api calls is such a simple problem that you can’t make supernormal profits off it. A decent product could command a small fee. But VCs, as the Grapes of Wrath says of banks, cannot accept moderate incomes on a human scale.
Perhaps the bigger problem is that there is a financial layer that exists on the assumption that another productive sector (farms, computers) can somewhat reliably produce outsized profits. We’re at the point where just because it’s computerized there’s no reason to believe a product will unlock the massive order of magnitude productivity gains that will make people want to pay for it or spend all their time staring at it.
I always have hope when I click on that link, but I can read that they don't owe me shit https://justuse.org/#:~:text=More%20coming%20soon%2E%20Or%20not%2E%20I%20don%27t%20owe%20you%20shit
This author and Carson need to collaborate. Or don't, they don't owe me :-D
https://github.com/ducaale/xh
curl is great and I use it a lot, but it's kind of a pain to use JSON APIs with it.
Something I tried : https://github.com/VoidenHQ/voiden
curl would be fine for one-off requests. If the intent is to chain multiple requests and share them across a team, something like hurl would be a better option.
I was genually horrified how big a company running postman is. I had no clue what they are doing there, but I noticed that it's getting harder and harder to use.
Nowadays, I just use curl/yaak (but mostly just curl).
I thought it was just an open source tool someone made on the side. Checked out out the website after your comment, and on the about page: "Postman recently closed a $225 million Series D investment round..."
I don't even know how to reason about this.
For figuring out how to use an API, Bruno is the most common thing I use and see others use. To the extent that I've noticed any lack of polish, it hasn't mattered. But I also haven't really noticed it.
When it gets to the writing and running tests part, I just write it into my system tests. (Usually using pytest on my stuff, but I don't see a postman-like thing having a role in many kinds of automated tests...)
When I'm doing pentesting, it's kind of the same thing. I'll use the shiny client to iterate and figure out how the API works, but for the real tests, I'm either bring scripts or putting it together using a browser's developer tools on the fly. Depending on the test it's frequently the latter thing, 'cause it's a pain to get custom tools into certain engagements.
I don't see them as abandoned so much as just not worth building out much more than they are. They're certainly not worth postman's or insomnia's paywalls.
Interesting ! Maybe try out https://voiden.md sometime. We designed in a different way than Bruno. Open-sourced it some days back.
I have only seen the json collections, and some screenshots or recordings from some colleagues using it, I can't believe you need a login or pay for it
Postman only exists because of this artificial moat. For offensive work, I use ZAP; for building backends, I don't use a proxy at all, but
curl, Firefox, and a backend-specific test harness. There is no good justification for using paid tools for this purpose; the marginal cost of a high-quality proxy is already zero.https://voiden.md/ has no login - we do check that box and also not dependent on cloud.
I’ve taken to using curl for api testing, for things that require more automation e.g. obtaining a token for authentication before hitting the required endpoint I write bash scripts.
Postman is a pretty interface but ultimately using curl and learning enough shell scripting to get by is likely the better solution for most.
This is precisely the reason I started working on Slumber. Insomnia just got a little too shitty for me to put up with. It doesn't check all the boxes that the post asks for, but it is file-system centric and intended for VCS-based collaboration. It's a TUI though, so it doesn't help if you're attached to using a GUI :P
I love slumber! I’m a big fan and use it almost every work day
These are not particularly complicated tools either. I'd make one myself if I weren't ridiculously busy.
the httpie cli tool is pretty cool, and open-source, under something resembling a BSD license.
If you need GUI, I think https://yaak.app/ is one of the better alternatives.
But I've been using the .http file format in git with e.g. https://httpyac.github.io/ to execute.
I keep wanting to use hurl, but the lack of IDE support is a real bummer. So I either use httpyac or rest-client mostly these days.
As the original creator of Insomnia, this post hit hard. It was tough watching the tool I spent years building degrade since accepting an acquisition offer in 2019.
After going down a very similar process as the author started over and built Yaak [1]
I'd love some feedback if you get a chance to try it.
[1] https://yaak.app
Oh neat, I liked Insomnia but then it progressively started introducing accounts and workspaces and all this other "stuff" that wasn't "I just want to make an API request".
I tried out Bruno a bit after they launched but I found it a little too wonky, with its custom bru format and that.
I'll be looking forward to giving Yaak a spin!
Do you have a quick answer in your pocket (even one that you could just link to) for why someone might rather use yaak than bruno?
I switched to Yaak almost a year ago, before the repo was even public. Happy user since then. Great tool!
I've always just used https://github.com/pashky/restclient.el.
Years before postman existed, I made a socket client UI in java swing, which I used to debug the response of PHP applications. Then I wanted to script such tests and found out this cli application called curl which did everything I needed.
I felt embarassed for having built a UI for something that clearly didn't need one.
I guess it's all a matter of marketing.
I had a coworker who used the Google Chrome App version of Postman. It gained the "Chrome Apps are now deprecated!" banner and he continued using it fine for like a year after deprecation. I wonder if he still uses it to this day.
No mention of RapidAPI on macOS? used to be called Paw. I've preferred it over Postman and others for years.
Been using HURL and haven’t looked back
Tools are becoming less significant over time, while developers are increasingly worried about making a living, since anyone can create something nowadays. The space feels crowded and unclear, making it much harder for real quality to shine.