Oracle Files H-1B Visa Petitions Amid Mass Layoffs
jmyeet
I personally think that doing a layoff of more than 2% of your workforce or 1000 people, whichever is high, should restrict you from filing for a work visa for a period of 3 years.
Or you can buy your way out of that restriction by paying each laid off worker 3 years of wages.
Pick one.
pm90
Oracle is a large company. Many of those laid off were outside the US. This is a non-story.
OrvalWintermute
Not sure this is truly the “Oracle VP of Workforce Economics” posting on X, but it makes a good thread:
Don't worry, Trump is in Ellison's pocket so this will go through.
OrvalWintermute
H1B is generally a giant scam of Labor Arbitrage
cmiles8
I would expect further H1B crackdowns coming. The $100k fee was just the start.
toomuchtodo
Good.
idiotsecant
I would absolutely not expect this, especially as long as Oracle and all the other technofeudalists are properly paying their taxes to the count and king.
afavour
I disagree, I think the $100k fee was a deliberate move to make sure the yearly allocation is only available to large companies like Oracle and out of reach of smaller startups.
Despite the rhetoric the administration is very friendly to big business and will absolutely help them hire cheaply.
Hamuko
Isn’t Larry friends with the administration?
qwertyuiop_
USCIS says they competed the 2027 quota. Is there any evidence all enrolled paid $100k this year ?
Dig1t
Sadly I think you're wrong on this one. Trump's donors benefit from H1B cheap labor. Musk, Elison, etc contributed large sums to Trump's campaign. Just look at Musk's "fuck your own face" tweets from Dec 2024 and you'll see how the people with power feel about this issue. As usual the middle class is being squeezed by the oligarchy.
The 100k fee basically does nothing to curb H1B cheap labor. It's a one-time fee, and when you realize that H1B's can't easily leave their job, it's a fee that easily pays for itself. H1B's are paid less for the same job (just google "are H1B's paid less"), and since they can't easily leave, the reduced turnover saves them money as well. If you think that an employee is likely to stay for 4 years, that's only 25k per year and the fact that they are paid about 15%-20% less than an American, the equation still easily comes out in favor of importing the cheap labor.
It was a move crafted to look like it was cracking down on abuse, but not actually cause any real pain to the companies abusing the system. Hence why all these mega corps are still filing for H1B's even while laying off their American citizen workers.
slau
I hate Oracle as much as the next guy, but this seems like a nothingburger.
Oracle didn’t file “thousands of H1Bs”. Oracle filed 2690 applications in FY2025 (Oct-Sep), and so far filed 436 in FY2026, according to the article.
If anything, this would indicate that Oracle slowed down on hiring foreign workforce. Oct-Mar is half of Oracle’s fiscal year, but they only filed 16% of the H1B applications as in 2025? That seems in line with a hiring freeze and subsequent layoff.
rdtsc
Wherever their major offices are look for newspapers in the small towns nearby advertising for "Software developers for Oracle" all written in the tiniest print, right next to classified that sell used bikes, car parts and other stuff.
- "Well, Uncle Sam, we looked so hard in US and nobody answered our job posts, we have to go to ... $othercountry to hire, there is no other way"
Just to cut through the headline here. The largest chunk of Oracle layoffs were in India [1]. In comparison, they've barely fired any American workers.
Contrary to popular opinion, IT workers aren't interchangeable and there exist a large swath of jobs that very few people qualify for (HN should know this) because of the specialization required.
America is at near full employment [2]. Replacing American workers with lower paid foreign workers is already illegal and frequently enforced[3].
This is such a deep distraction but a virulent virus of a narrative, surgically designed to needle our reptilian minds.
Apparently, no citizen wants to do this job? Why do we allow things like this?
sva_
They have many departments, and are probably reducing some of them while increasing the workforce in others. The idea that they hire 'those damn foreigners' to push down wages is probably true to some degree, but not the whole story. I also don't believe the majority of these H1B are directly hired in other countries for which there is now a $100k fee, but rather people who studied in the US under F1 visa who are exempt from this rule.
calculatte
What magical skills do the "damn foreigners" have that none of those 30,000 laid off employees don't have? What was the intent of the H1B? To find skills that don't exist in this country. What is H1B actually used for? Labor arbitrage, nepotism, kickbacks. There's really no excuse for defending it anymore.
simianwords
This whole H1B debacle tells me that people don't like it when employees are not fungible but this sentiment only exists selectively.
The H1B i140 petition thing requires you to advertise the job before submitting the petition. How does this work if the employee is not fungible?
some_random
You advertise in small circulation newspapers, I thought this was well known.
cyberax
> The H1B i140 petition thing requires you to advertise the job before submitting the petition.
You're confusing things. I-140 is a green card application, not H1B.
H1B petition requires the I-129 form and an LCA from the DoL. No advertisement is required, except posting the LCAs in a conspicuous place in the company office.
timedude
Turns out it was true all the layoffs were because of AI (actual indians).
mikert89
Where did my standard of living go? Couldnt possibly have to do with imported labor working around the clock under the threat of being kicked out of the country
maest
Cheap labour producing goods for the native population at low costs should increase your standard of living, no? It makes the products you buy cheaper.
By your logic, if you were the only person in the country, you'd live like a king.
satvikpendem
For tech jobs specifically? Compensation has been increasing since the turn of the millennium, what standard of living do you mean? If you mean housing, that's due mainly to NIMBYism from native labor buying and owning houses, especially before the tech boom, not imported labor.
reducesuffering
If you want to hire an H1B and claim there is no American to do that job, what about the 30k employees you just laid off? None of them can do the software engineering, sales, HR, etc. that a company like Oracle works on 99% of the time? It's quite schizophrenic for basic engineering companies like Oracle, Cisco, eBay, Paypal, etc. to claim there are no Americans to do the software engineering they require after they lay off thousands and there are millions of American software engineers looking for work.
marcher
Schizophrenic?
dominotw
lots ppl are confused in this comment section. h1b doesnt not require looking for a local first.
motbus3
Read this guy comment before taking it to this level
I don't understand why American workers would support this program at this scale. Furthermore, I believe universities and other similar researchy/affiliated non-profits are exempt from the hiring caps.
I just cannot imagine executives at tech companies/body shops having any positive ethical motivations. More like "they'll do what we say without complaining or they'll go home". There's no way it's not just a hugely abusive to both pools of workers. The whole thing really feels like another example of the imbalance between labor and capital in the US.
Who originally wanted H-1B/etc? Rich people with money and power? Of course!
dominotw
workers dont. but dont speak against it either because they are scared of losing heir jobs from accusations of racism.
dexwiz
Because our government is not run for the workers but the owners. Full stop.
some_random
It was really easy to support when tech jobs were plentiful, well compensated, and fun.
fooker
There's not much preventing you from starting a company and not hiring immigrants.
This is something I'd encourage everyone with strong opinions about work visas to try and accomplish.
You don't change a system by crying about it on anonymous internet forums, you do it by competing against it and making it redundant.
civitas_
[dead]
kstrauser
No. Abso-f'ing-lutely not, no way, no how. You cannot force me to believe that the talent they're looking for isn't available here already.
alephnerd
Meanwhile this March we saw 15k manufacturing jobs, 26k construction jobs, and 91k healthcare and education jobs added [0].
Those are the voters that matter (unionized, geographically spread out, didn't price everyone else out via remote work) - not SWEs.
You didn't even try to read the comments to get a context.
You assumed you were being attacked and you need to hate immigrants.
You are just being manipulated.
OptionOfT
And every employer that says they can't find talent fits in the same bucket for me.
There is no issue finding talent. There is only an issue finding talent that is willing to work for the too-low pay you're willing to pay.
QGQBGdeZREunxLe
It's always puzzled me that layoffs don't result in a temporary bar from using the H1B system like it does for filing PERMs with the DoL.
orochimaaru
The H1B has “speciality” categories. You can lay off in one “speciality” while hiring for others. It’s silly but that’s how it’s setup at the moment.
I agree with you. The category list in H1B needs to be trimmed. So that companies have less wiggle room for things like this.
The layoffs were also worldwide. Not sure what the impact to US workers was. India was hit hard.
PearlRiver
The US only has two political parties and they are both, secretly, pro immigration.
The EU is actually clamping down on it because of populist/far right parties. I know someone who runs a Thai restaurant and he cannot fly in a cook from Asia. He has to find someone from Europe.
p_l
They should also trigger holds on bunch of other operations, like stock buyouts or sales by people with active or recent relationship to the company
fooker
When you are puzzled about something, the first step is to find out why something works like it does. :)
With green cards, the government is concerned about permanent residents being dependent on the state if a company ceases to exist or fails to pay salaries or lays people off.
This worry is largely not present for limited term work visas.
zombot
The MAGA crowd will be ecstatic. They get fired while their president's buddy gets to hire new workers that are cheaper and more susceptible to extortion. Be careful what you vote for.
motbus3
Well... If they fact check stuff...
The layoffs didn't happen in America
There was no option to vote for which was actually pro-worker. The other side is just as in-favor of these "high skilled" visas, and also even more pro mass-migration of all kinds. The previous admin sued Texas and Arizona to take down their border walls, and sent forklifts to literally open the barbed wire at the border.
There is no evidence that the alternative party would have done anything about this issue.
It is obvious that both parties are completely detached from the interests of their constituents.
moshegramovsky
That's MAGA for you. They're not even complaining (very much) about super high gas prices. They absolutely excoriated Biden when the price went up even a nickel. MAGA will sacrifice absolutely anything for their king.
reenorap
The title is extremely deceitful. They filed H1Bs for 2025 and 2026, but not after or during the layoffs from last week.
That’s like saying “Oracle hires tens of thousands and mass layoffs” (* hired during the pandemic)
toomuchtodo
I suppose we simply disagree, and that is fine. I think the H-1B should be eliminated in favor of the O-1, the domestic labor exists, corporations would simply prefer "optimize their labor costs" and employ workers with reduced mobility via the H-1B. The data is clear from the salaries paid, which is public data.
As I've commented previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46257889 "I am calling for a temporary moratorium for issuing new worker visas based on the current economic macro and existing immigrant worker base in the US companies can pick from, yes. I support the current $100k H-1B fee, in perpetuity. The domestic workforce exists, it is a choice to not pick from the domestic labor pool. Choices have consequences."
The US has an obligation to its citizens, not corporations, not immigrant labor (already on US soil, or desiring to be on US soil). Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context. Again, we may disagree on this, but I think I can find a majority of Americans who do agree with this sentiment (considering the current macro and affordability crisis in the US).
Avicebron
> The US has an obligation to its citizens
In an ideal world the US _is_ it's citizens. Importing thousands of "guest" workers on h1b visas who never end up leaving seems borderline seditious.
raw_anon_1111
Just for reference, if you’re in tech and a senior even in a 2nd tier city, you’re probably not “the little guy”, you’re probably in the top 10% if you make more than around $160K
> Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context.
"We fail to tax our corporations adequately, so the proceeds of rampant deregulation and profiteering don't benefit the general populace".
I don't necessarily disagree with your stance but this seems like a weak justification (it's pragmatic, to be fair)
lateforwork
Keep in mind that employers have to pay $100,000 in visa fees (in addition to competitive salaries) for each H-1B visa. Clearly these immigrants are not undercutting US workers. It is $100K cheaper to hire a US worker.
VectorLock
Unless they get waivers, which I'm sure Larry has worked out with his buddy.
ibero
to clear up confusion, this 100k applies to brand new h1b petitions outside the country.
if you are already in the US it currently does not apply to you, or if you are transferring jobs with an existing h1b, or renewing your h1b.
source: former h1b
side note: as of february it’s estimated only 85 h1b petitions paid the 100k fee. the rest did not fall under the qualification.
I find the topic of the morality or effectiveness of having a H-1B a little bit intractable to reason about rationally. Consider a simplified model of the system.
You have 2 countries, C1 and C2.
Scenario 1:
C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs.
C1 only has 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs.
The wages of C1 go up because there is more demand than supply.
Scenario 2:
C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs.
C1 only has 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs.
Now you put in a H1-B visa program that will pay the same as the prevalent wage as a local native.
C2 has enough candidates to fill the other 50 positions.
The wages of C1 will NOT go up because now supply matches demand.
Is Scenario 2 fair? Who gets to decide what fair is? Given the above system, I think I would argue that H1-B visa programs cause wage deflation in C1, even if it is filling jobs that would not be filled and even if the jobs paid the exact same as someone working in the native country.
I am not dogmatic about that though. Willing to hear a counterpoint to scenario 2.
smetannik
Did oracle manage to circumvent 100k payment per H1B applicant?
Also, why they need to do H1B instead of just outsourcing abroad?
MrWiffles
What I’m not clear on - how many of these H1B hires are subject to the EO that jacked up the fee to $100k per person? Assuming even just 100 of them were, that’s still ten million USD (assuming I didn’t visualize the zeroes in my head wrong…), and a really large fee to justify to the board if you’re otherwise paying “roughly the same” in salary. Productivity is going to basically break even anyway after a few years.
This is why I’m wondering: did the EO get blocked, paused for judicial review or something? Is it even in effect?
No intention to make this political, I’m legitimately curious about the status of the law and its actual applicability here. Supposed to be such a steep fine they literally couldn’t afford to do this - not with them already going cash flow negative to build out AI datacenters. So either it’s not applying (why?) or somehow they’re justifying one HUGE fee and somebody is floating them one astronomical loan - which again, why? Where’s the profit in taking that big a risk? Seems absolutely unhinged!
We’re missing something here. Or, at least, I am.
suid
Remember that there was a "one-time fee" exception for "favored clients" (read: friends of Trump), who could pay a single lump-sum of something like $1 million, and then apply for unlimited H-1B's at the old fee structure.
emodendroket
All of these companies are hiring constantly even as they do layoffs so this is an easy story to write every time there are layoffs.
BeetleB
To all the folks here complaining that there is plenty of talent in the US to fill those roles:
Honestly tell me: Would you ever apply to Oracle for a job?
throwaway613746
[dead]
fooker
This article is deliberately written in a way to aggravate people who do not understand how the visa process works.
thumbsup-_-
Most of these would just be visa renewals. Though it wouldn’t be click bait enough to mention in article title
jmyeet
I personally think that doing a layoff of more than 2% of your workforce or 1000 people, whichever is high, should restrict you from filing for a work visa for a period of 3 years.
Or you can buy your way out of that restriction by paying each laid off worker 3 years of wages.
Pick one.
pm90
Oracle is a large company. Many of those laid off were outside the US. This is a non-story.
OrvalWintermute
Not sure this is truly the “Oracle VP of Workforce Economics” posting on X, but it makes a good thread:
Don't worry, Trump is in Ellison's pocket so this will go through.
OrvalWintermute
H1B is generally a giant scam of Labor Arbitrage
cmiles8
I would expect further H1B crackdowns coming. The $100k fee was just the start.
toomuchtodo
Good.
idiotsecant
I would absolutely not expect this, especially as long as Oracle and all the other technofeudalists are properly paying their taxes to the count and king.
afavour
I disagree, I think the $100k fee was a deliberate move to make sure the yearly allocation is only available to large companies like Oracle and out of reach of smaller startups.
Despite the rhetoric the administration is very friendly to big business and will absolutely help them hire cheaply.
Hamuko
Isn’t Larry friends with the administration?
qwertyuiop_
USCIS says they competed the 2027 quota. Is there any evidence all enrolled paid $100k this year ?
Dig1t
Sadly I think you're wrong on this one. Trump's donors benefit from H1B cheap labor. Musk, Elison, etc contributed large sums to Trump's campaign. Just look at Musk's "fuck your own face" tweets from Dec 2024 and you'll see how the people with power feel about this issue. As usual the middle class is being squeezed by the oligarchy.
The 100k fee basically does nothing to curb H1B cheap labor. It's a one-time fee, and when you realize that H1B's can't easily leave their job, it's a fee that easily pays for itself. H1B's are paid less for the same job (just google "are H1B's paid less"), and since they can't easily leave, the reduced turnover saves them money as well. If you think that an employee is likely to stay for 4 years, that's only 25k per year and the fact that they are paid about 15%-20% less than an American, the equation still easily comes out in favor of importing the cheap labor.
It was a move crafted to look like it was cracking down on abuse, but not actually cause any real pain to the companies abusing the system. Hence why all these mega corps are still filing for H1B's even while laying off their American citizen workers.
slau
I hate Oracle as much as the next guy, but this seems like a nothingburger.
Oracle didn’t file “thousands of H1Bs”. Oracle filed 2690 applications in FY2025 (Oct-Sep), and so far filed 436 in FY2026, according to the article.
If anything, this would indicate that Oracle slowed down on hiring foreign workforce. Oct-Mar is half of Oracle’s fiscal year, but they only filed 16% of the H1B applications as in 2025? That seems in line with a hiring freeze and subsequent layoff.
rdtsc
Wherever their major offices are look for newspapers in the small towns nearby advertising for "Software developers for Oracle" all written in the tiniest print, right next to classified that sell used bikes, car parts and other stuff.
- "Well, Uncle Sam, we looked so hard in US and nobody answered our job posts, we have to go to ... $othercountry to hire, there is no other way"
Just to cut through the headline here. The largest chunk of Oracle layoffs were in India [1]. In comparison, they've barely fired any American workers.
Contrary to popular opinion, IT workers aren't interchangeable and there exist a large swath of jobs that very few people qualify for (HN should know this) because of the specialization required.
America is at near full employment [2]. Replacing American workers with lower paid foreign workers is already illegal and frequently enforced[3].
This is such a deep distraction but a virulent virus of a narrative, surgically designed to needle our reptilian minds.
Apparently, no citizen wants to do this job? Why do we allow things like this?
sva_
They have many departments, and are probably reducing some of them while increasing the workforce in others. The idea that they hire 'those damn foreigners' to push down wages is probably true to some degree, but not the whole story. I also don't believe the majority of these H1B are directly hired in other countries for which there is now a $100k fee, but rather people who studied in the US under F1 visa who are exempt from this rule.
calculatte
What magical skills do the "damn foreigners" have that none of those 30,000 laid off employees don't have? What was the intent of the H1B? To find skills that don't exist in this country. What is H1B actually used for? Labor arbitrage, nepotism, kickbacks. There's really no excuse for defending it anymore.
simianwords
This whole H1B debacle tells me that people don't like it when employees are not fungible but this sentiment only exists selectively.
The H1B i140 petition thing requires you to advertise the job before submitting the petition. How does this work if the employee is not fungible?
some_random
You advertise in small circulation newspapers, I thought this was well known.
cyberax
> The H1B i140 petition thing requires you to advertise the job before submitting the petition.
You're confusing things. I-140 is a green card application, not H1B.
H1B petition requires the I-129 form and an LCA from the DoL. No advertisement is required, except posting the LCAs in a conspicuous place in the company office.
timedude
Turns out it was true all the layoffs were because of AI (actual indians).
mikert89
Where did my standard of living go? Couldnt possibly have to do with imported labor working around the clock under the threat of being kicked out of the country
maest
Cheap labour producing goods for the native population at low costs should increase your standard of living, no? It makes the products you buy cheaper.
By your logic, if you were the only person in the country, you'd live like a king.
satvikpendem
For tech jobs specifically? Compensation has been increasing since the turn of the millennium, what standard of living do you mean? If you mean housing, that's due mainly to NIMBYism from native labor buying and owning houses, especially before the tech boom, not imported labor.
reducesuffering
If you want to hire an H1B and claim there is no American to do that job, what about the 30k employees you just laid off? None of them can do the software engineering, sales, HR, etc. that a company like Oracle works on 99% of the time? It's quite schizophrenic for basic engineering companies like Oracle, Cisco, eBay, Paypal, etc. to claim there are no Americans to do the software engineering they require after they lay off thousands and there are millions of American software engineers looking for work.
marcher
Schizophrenic?
dominotw
lots ppl are confused in this comment section. h1b doesnt not require looking for a local first.
motbus3
Read this guy comment before taking it to this level
I don't understand why American workers would support this program at this scale. Furthermore, I believe universities and other similar researchy/affiliated non-profits are exempt from the hiring caps.
I just cannot imagine executives at tech companies/body shops having any positive ethical motivations. More like "they'll do what we say without complaining or they'll go home". There's no way it's not just a hugely abusive to both pools of workers. The whole thing really feels like another example of the imbalance between labor and capital in the US.
Who originally wanted H-1B/etc? Rich people with money and power? Of course!
dominotw
workers dont. but dont speak against it either because they are scared of losing heir jobs from accusations of racism.
dexwiz
Because our government is not run for the workers but the owners. Full stop.
some_random
It was really easy to support when tech jobs were plentiful, well compensated, and fun.
fooker
There's not much preventing you from starting a company and not hiring immigrants.
This is something I'd encourage everyone with strong opinions about work visas to try and accomplish.
You don't change a system by crying about it on anonymous internet forums, you do it by competing against it and making it redundant.
civitas_
[dead]
kstrauser
No. Abso-f'ing-lutely not, no way, no how. You cannot force me to believe that the talent they're looking for isn't available here already.
alephnerd
Meanwhile this March we saw 15k manufacturing jobs, 26k construction jobs, and 91k healthcare and education jobs added [0].
Those are the voters that matter (unionized, geographically spread out, didn't price everyone else out via remote work) - not SWEs.
You didn't even try to read the comments to get a context.
You assumed you were being attacked and you need to hate immigrants.
You are just being manipulated.
OptionOfT
And every employer that says they can't find talent fits in the same bucket for me.
There is no issue finding talent. There is only an issue finding talent that is willing to work for the too-low pay you're willing to pay.
QGQBGdeZREunxLe
It's always puzzled me that layoffs don't result in a temporary bar from using the H1B system like it does for filing PERMs with the DoL.
orochimaaru
The H1B has “speciality” categories. You can lay off in one “speciality” while hiring for others. It’s silly but that’s how it’s setup at the moment.
I agree with you. The category list in H1B needs to be trimmed. So that companies have less wiggle room for things like this.
The layoffs were also worldwide. Not sure what the impact to US workers was. India was hit hard.
PearlRiver
The US only has two political parties and they are both, secretly, pro immigration.
The EU is actually clamping down on it because of populist/far right parties. I know someone who runs a Thai restaurant and he cannot fly in a cook from Asia. He has to find someone from Europe.
p_l
They should also trigger holds on bunch of other operations, like stock buyouts or sales by people with active or recent relationship to the company
fooker
When you are puzzled about something, the first step is to find out why something works like it does. :)
With green cards, the government is concerned about permanent residents being dependent on the state if a company ceases to exist or fails to pay salaries or lays people off.
This worry is largely not present for limited term work visas.
zombot
The MAGA crowd will be ecstatic. They get fired while their president's buddy gets to hire new workers that are cheaper and more susceptible to extortion. Be careful what you vote for.
motbus3
Well... If they fact check stuff...
The layoffs didn't happen in America
There was no option to vote for which was actually pro-worker. The other side is just as in-favor of these "high skilled" visas, and also even more pro mass-migration of all kinds. The previous admin sued Texas and Arizona to take down their border walls, and sent forklifts to literally open the barbed wire at the border.
There is no evidence that the alternative party would have done anything about this issue.
It is obvious that both parties are completely detached from the interests of their constituents.
moshegramovsky
That's MAGA for you. They're not even complaining (very much) about super high gas prices. They absolutely excoriated Biden when the price went up even a nickel. MAGA will sacrifice absolutely anything for their king.
reenorap
The title is extremely deceitful. They filed H1Bs for 2025 and 2026, but not after or during the layoffs from last week.
That’s like saying “Oracle hires tens of thousands and mass layoffs” (* hired during the pandemic)
toomuchtodo
I suppose we simply disagree, and that is fine. I think the H-1B should be eliminated in favor of the O-1, the domestic labor exists, corporations would simply prefer "optimize their labor costs" and employ workers with reduced mobility via the H-1B. The data is clear from the salaries paid, which is public data.
As I've commented previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46257889 "I am calling for a temporary moratorium for issuing new worker visas based on the current economic macro and existing immigrant worker base in the US companies can pick from, yes. I support the current $100k H-1B fee, in perpetuity. The domestic workforce exists, it is a choice to not pick from the domestic labor pool. Choices have consequences."
The US has an obligation to its citizens, not corporations, not immigrant labor (already on US soil, or desiring to be on US soil). Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context. Again, we may disagree on this, but I think I can find a majority of Americans who do agree with this sentiment (considering the current macro and affordability crisis in the US).
Avicebron
> The US has an obligation to its citizens
In an ideal world the US _is_ it's citizens. Importing thousands of "guest" workers on h1b visas who never end up leaving seems borderline seditious.
raw_anon_1111
Just for reference, if you’re in tech and a senior even in a 2nd tier city, you’re probably not “the little guy”, you’re probably in the top 10% if you make more than around $160K
> Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context.
"We fail to tax our corporations adequately, so the proceeds of rampant deregulation and profiteering don't benefit the general populace".
I don't necessarily disagree with your stance but this seems like a weak justification (it's pragmatic, to be fair)
lateforwork
Keep in mind that employers have to pay $100,000 in visa fees (in addition to competitive salaries) for each H-1B visa. Clearly these immigrants are not undercutting US workers. It is $100K cheaper to hire a US worker.
VectorLock
Unless they get waivers, which I'm sure Larry has worked out with his buddy.
ibero
to clear up confusion, this 100k applies to brand new h1b petitions outside the country.
if you are already in the US it currently does not apply to you, or if you are transferring jobs with an existing h1b, or renewing your h1b.
source: former h1b
side note: as of february it’s estimated only 85 h1b petitions paid the 100k fee. the rest did not fall under the qualification.
I find the topic of the morality or effectiveness of having a H-1B a little bit intractable to reason about rationally. Consider a simplified model of the system.
You have 2 countries, C1 and C2.
Scenario 1:
C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs.
C1 only has 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs.
The wages of C1 go up because there is more demand than supply.
Scenario 2:
C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs.
C1 only has 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs.
Now you put in a H1-B visa program that will pay the same as the prevalent wage as a local native.
C2 has enough candidates to fill the other 50 positions.
The wages of C1 will NOT go up because now supply matches demand.
Is Scenario 2 fair? Who gets to decide what fair is? Given the above system, I think I would argue that H1-B visa programs cause wage deflation in C1, even if it is filling jobs that would not be filled and even if the jobs paid the exact same as someone working in the native country.
I am not dogmatic about that though. Willing to hear a counterpoint to scenario 2.
smetannik
Did oracle manage to circumvent 100k payment per H1B applicant?
Also, why they need to do H1B instead of just outsourcing abroad?
MrWiffles
What I’m not clear on - how many of these H1B hires are subject to the EO that jacked up the fee to $100k per person? Assuming even just 100 of them were, that’s still ten million USD (assuming I didn’t visualize the zeroes in my head wrong…), and a really large fee to justify to the board if you’re otherwise paying “roughly the same” in salary. Productivity is going to basically break even anyway after a few years.
This is why I’m wondering: did the EO get blocked, paused for judicial review or something? Is it even in effect?
No intention to make this political, I’m legitimately curious about the status of the law and its actual applicability here. Supposed to be such a steep fine they literally couldn’t afford to do this - not with them already going cash flow negative to build out AI datacenters. So either it’s not applying (why?) or somehow they’re justifying one HUGE fee and somebody is floating them one astronomical loan - which again, why? Where’s the profit in taking that big a risk? Seems absolutely unhinged!
We’re missing something here. Or, at least, I am.
suid
Remember that there was a "one-time fee" exception for "favored clients" (read: friends of Trump), who could pay a single lump-sum of something like $1 million, and then apply for unlimited H-1B's at the old fee structure.
emodendroket
All of these companies are hiring constantly even as they do layoffs so this is an easy story to write every time there are layoffs.
BeetleB
To all the folks here complaining that there is plenty of talent in the US to fill those roles:
Honestly tell me: Would you ever apply to Oracle for a job?
throwaway613746
[dead]
fooker
This article is deliberately written in a way to aggravate people who do not understand how the visa process works.
thumbsup-_-
Most of these would just be visa renewals. Though it wouldn’t be click bait enough to mention in article title
I personally think that doing a layoff of more than 2% of your workforce or 1000 people, whichever is high, should restrict you from filing for a work visa for a period of 3 years.
Or you can buy your way out of that restriction by paying each laid off worker 3 years of wages.
Pick one.
Oracle is a large company. Many of those laid off were outside the US. This is a non-story.
Not sure this is truly the “Oracle VP of Workforce Economics” posting on X, but it makes a good thread:
https://x.com/gothburz/status/2040142920674656482?s=46
Don't worry, Trump is in Ellison's pocket so this will go through.
H1B is generally a giant scam of Labor Arbitrage
I would expect further H1B crackdowns coming. The $100k fee was just the start.
Good.
I would absolutely not expect this, especially as long as Oracle and all the other technofeudalists are properly paying their taxes to the count and king.
I disagree, I think the $100k fee was a deliberate move to make sure the yearly allocation is only available to large companies like Oracle and out of reach of smaller startups.
Despite the rhetoric the administration is very friendly to big business and will absolutely help them hire cheaply.
Isn’t Larry friends with the administration?
USCIS says they competed the 2027 quota. Is there any evidence all enrolled paid $100k this year ?
Sadly I think you're wrong on this one. Trump's donors benefit from H1B cheap labor. Musk, Elison, etc contributed large sums to Trump's campaign. Just look at Musk's "fuck your own face" tweets from Dec 2024 and you'll see how the people with power feel about this issue. As usual the middle class is being squeezed by the oligarchy.
The 100k fee basically does nothing to curb H1B cheap labor. It's a one-time fee, and when you realize that H1B's can't easily leave their job, it's a fee that easily pays for itself. H1B's are paid less for the same job (just google "are H1B's paid less"), and since they can't easily leave, the reduced turnover saves them money as well. If you think that an employee is likely to stay for 4 years, that's only 25k per year and the fact that they are paid about 15%-20% less than an American, the equation still easily comes out in favor of importing the cheap labor.
It was a move crafted to look like it was cracking down on abuse, but not actually cause any real pain to the companies abusing the system. Hence why all these mega corps are still filing for H1B's even while laying off their American citizen workers.
I hate Oracle as much as the next guy, but this seems like a nothingburger.
Oracle didn’t file “thousands of H1Bs”. Oracle filed 2690 applications in FY2025 (Oct-Sep), and so far filed 436 in FY2026, according to the article.
If anything, this would indicate that Oracle slowed down on hiring foreign workforce. Oct-Mar is half of Oracle’s fiscal year, but they only filed 16% of the H1B applications as in 2025? That seems in line with a hiring freeze and subsequent layoff.
Wherever their major offices are look for newspapers in the small towns nearby advertising for "Software developers for Oracle" all written in the tiniest print, right next to classified that sell used bikes, car parts and other stuff.
- "Well, Uncle Sam, we looked so hard in US and nobody answered our job posts, we have to go to ... $othercountry to hire, there is no other way"
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44880832
https://www.jobs.now/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44892321
Just to cut through the headline here. The largest chunk of Oracle layoffs were in India [1]. In comparison, they've barely fired any American workers.
Contrary to popular opinion, IT workers aren't interchangeable and there exist a large swath of jobs that very few people qualify for (HN should know this) because of the specialization required.
America is at near full employment [2]. Replacing American workers with lower paid foreign workers is already illegal and frequently enforced[3].
This is such a deep distraction but a virulent virus of a narrative, surgically designed to needle our reptilian minds.
[1]: https://www.goodreturns.in/news/tech-layoffs-2025-oracle-cut...
[2]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/269959/employment-in-the...
[3]: https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/whd/whd20180501-2, https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/whd/whd20180501-2
Stanford also filed an H1B this year to hire an IT person.
https://x.com/chrisbrunet/status/2037376353461567734
Apparently, no citizen wants to do this job? Why do we allow things like this?
They have many departments, and are probably reducing some of them while increasing the workforce in others. The idea that they hire 'those damn foreigners' to push down wages is probably true to some degree, but not the whole story. I also don't believe the majority of these H1B are directly hired in other countries for which there is now a $100k fee, but rather people who studied in the US under F1 visa who are exempt from this rule.
What magical skills do the "damn foreigners" have that none of those 30,000 laid off employees don't have? What was the intent of the H1B? To find skills that don't exist in this country. What is H1B actually used for? Labor arbitrage, nepotism, kickbacks. There's really no excuse for defending it anymore.
This whole H1B debacle tells me that people don't like it when employees are not fungible but this sentiment only exists selectively.
The H1B i140 petition thing requires you to advertise the job before submitting the petition. How does this work if the employee is not fungible?
You advertise in small circulation newspapers, I thought this was well known.
> The H1B i140 petition thing requires you to advertise the job before submitting the petition.
You're confusing things. I-140 is a green card application, not H1B.
H1B petition requires the I-129 form and an LCA from the DoL. No advertisement is required, except posting the LCAs in a conspicuous place in the company office.
Turns out it was true all the layoffs were because of AI (actual indians).
Where did my standard of living go? Couldnt possibly have to do with imported labor working around the clock under the threat of being kicked out of the country
Cheap labour producing goods for the native population at low costs should increase your standard of living, no? It makes the products you buy cheaper.
By your logic, if you were the only person in the country, you'd live like a king.
For tech jobs specifically? Compensation has been increasing since the turn of the millennium, what standard of living do you mean? If you mean housing, that's due mainly to NIMBYism from native labor buying and owning houses, especially before the tech boom, not imported labor.
If you want to hire an H1B and claim there is no American to do that job, what about the 30k employees you just laid off? None of them can do the software engineering, sales, HR, etc. that a company like Oracle works on 99% of the time? It's quite schizophrenic for basic engineering companies like Oracle, Cisco, eBay, Paypal, etc. to claim there are no Americans to do the software engineering they require after they lay off thousands and there are millions of American software engineers looking for work.
Schizophrenic?
lots ppl are confused in this comment section. h1b doesnt not require looking for a local first.
Read this guy comment before taking it to this level
https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pj_mukh
I don't understand why American workers would support this program at this scale. Furthermore, I believe universities and other similar researchy/affiliated non-profits are exempt from the hiring caps.
I just cannot imagine executives at tech companies/body shops having any positive ethical motivations. More like "they'll do what we say without complaining or they'll go home". There's no way it's not just a hugely abusive to both pools of workers. The whole thing really feels like another example of the imbalance between labor and capital in the US.
Who originally wanted H-1B/etc? Rich people with money and power? Of course!
workers dont. but dont speak against it either because they are scared of losing heir jobs from accusations of racism.
Because our government is not run for the workers but the owners. Full stop.
It was really easy to support when tech jobs were plentiful, well compensated, and fun.
There's not much preventing you from starting a company and not hiring immigrants.
This is something I'd encourage everyone with strong opinions about work visas to try and accomplish.
You don't change a system by crying about it on anonymous internet forums, you do it by competing against it and making it redundant.
[dead]
No. Abso-f'ing-lutely not, no way, no how. You cannot force me to believe that the talent they're looking for isn't available here already.
Meanwhile this March we saw 15k manufacturing jobs, 26k construction jobs, and 91k healthcare and education jobs added [0].
Those are the voters that matter (unionized, geographically spread out, didn't price everyone else out via remote work) - not SWEs.
[0] - https://www.ft.com/content/82c1795b-704a-4da3-82ec-2f9cd52de...
construction, hospital nurses and daycare workers are the avialble jobs? so depressing and scary
Everyone that supports the H1-B program because they “can’t find talent” is my enemy.
https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pj_mukh
You didn't even try to read the comments to get a context. You assumed you were being attacked and you need to hate immigrants. You are just being manipulated.
And every employer that says they can't find talent fits in the same bucket for me.
There is no issue finding talent. There is only an issue finding talent that is willing to work for the too-low pay you're willing to pay.
It's always puzzled me that layoffs don't result in a temporary bar from using the H1B system like it does for filing PERMs with the DoL.
The H1B has “speciality” categories. You can lay off in one “speciality” while hiring for others. It’s silly but that’s how it’s setup at the moment.
I agree with you. The category list in H1B needs to be trimmed. So that companies have less wiggle room for things like this.
The layoffs were also worldwide. Not sure what the impact to US workers was. India was hit hard.
The US only has two political parties and they are both, secretly, pro immigration.
The EU is actually clamping down on it because of populist/far right parties. I know someone who runs a Thai restaurant and he cannot fly in a cook from Asia. He has to find someone from Europe.
They should also trigger holds on bunch of other operations, like stock buyouts or sales by people with active or recent relationship to the company
When you are puzzled about something, the first step is to find out why something works like it does. :)
With green cards, the government is concerned about permanent residents being dependent on the state if a company ceases to exist or fails to pay salaries or lays people off.
This worry is largely not present for limited term work visas.
The MAGA crowd will be ecstatic. They get fired while their president's buddy gets to hire new workers that are cheaper and more susceptible to extortion. Be careful what you vote for.
Well... If they fact check stuff... The layoffs didn't happen in America
https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pj_mukh
There was no option to vote for which was actually pro-worker. The other side is just as in-favor of these "high skilled" visas, and also even more pro mass-migration of all kinds. The previous admin sued Texas and Arizona to take down their border walls, and sent forklifts to literally open the barbed wire at the border.
There is no evidence that the alternative party would have done anything about this issue.
It is obvious that both parties are completely detached from the interests of their constituents.
That's MAGA for you. They're not even complaining (very much) about super high gas prices. They absolutely excoriated Biden when the price went up even a nickel. MAGA will sacrifice absolutely anything for their king.
The title is extremely deceitful. They filed H1Bs for 2025 and 2026, but not after or during the layoffs from last week.
That’s like saying “Oracle hires tens of thousands and mass layoffs” (* hired during the pandemic)
I suppose we simply disagree, and that is fine. I think the H-1B should be eliminated in favor of the O-1, the domestic labor exists, corporations would simply prefer "optimize their labor costs" and employ workers with reduced mobility via the H-1B. The data is clear from the salaries paid, which is public data.
As I've commented previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46257889 "I am calling for a temporary moratorium for issuing new worker visas based on the current economic macro and existing immigrant worker base in the US companies can pick from, yes. I support the current $100k H-1B fee, in perpetuity. The domestic workforce exists, it is a choice to not pick from the domestic labor pool. Choices have consequences."
The US has an obligation to its citizens, not corporations, not immigrant labor (already on US soil, or desiring to be on US soil). Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context. Again, we may disagree on this, but I think I can find a majority of Americans who do agree with this sentiment (considering the current macro and affordability crisis in the US).
> The US has an obligation to its citizens
In an ideal world the US _is_ it's citizens. Importing thousands of "guest" workers on h1b visas who never end up leaving seems borderline seditious.
Just for reference, if you’re in tech and a senior even in a 2nd tier city, you’re probably not “the little guy”, you’re probably in the top 10% if you make more than around $160K
https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/
> Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context.
"We fail to tax our corporations adequately, so the proceeds of rampant deregulation and profiteering don't benefit the general populace".
I don't necessarily disagree with your stance but this seems like a weak justification (it's pragmatic, to be fair)
Keep in mind that employers have to pay $100,000 in visa fees (in addition to competitive salaries) for each H-1B visa. Clearly these immigrants are not undercutting US workers. It is $100K cheaper to hire a US worker.
Unless they get waivers, which I'm sure Larry has worked out with his buddy.
to clear up confusion, this 100k applies to brand new h1b petitions outside the country.
if you are already in the US it currently does not apply to you, or if you are transferring jobs with an existing h1b, or renewing your h1b.
source: former h1b
side note: as of february it’s estimated only 85 h1b petitions paid the 100k fee. the rest did not fall under the qualification.
https://www.staffingindustry.com/news/global-daily-news/1000...
America has an H1b invasion problem
I find the topic of the morality or effectiveness of having a H-1B a little bit intractable to reason about rationally. Consider a simplified model of the system.
You have 2 countries, C1 and C2.
Scenario 1: C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs. C1 only has 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs.
The wages of C1 go up because there is more demand than supply.
Scenario 2: C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs. C1 only has 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs.
Now you put in a H1-B visa program that will pay the same as the prevalent wage as a local native. C2 has enough candidates to fill the other 50 positions.
The wages of C1 will NOT go up because now supply matches demand.
Is Scenario 2 fair? Who gets to decide what fair is? Given the above system, I think I would argue that H1-B visa programs cause wage deflation in C1, even if it is filling jobs that would not be filled and even if the jobs paid the exact same as someone working in the native country.
I am not dogmatic about that though. Willing to hear a counterpoint to scenario 2.
Did oracle manage to circumvent 100k payment per H1B applicant?
Also, why they need to do H1B instead of just outsourcing abroad?
What I’m not clear on - how many of these H1B hires are subject to the EO that jacked up the fee to $100k per person? Assuming even just 100 of them were, that’s still ten million USD (assuming I didn’t visualize the zeroes in my head wrong…), and a really large fee to justify to the board if you’re otherwise paying “roughly the same” in salary. Productivity is going to basically break even anyway after a few years.
This is why I’m wondering: did the EO get blocked, paused for judicial review or something? Is it even in effect?
No intention to make this political, I’m legitimately curious about the status of the law and its actual applicability here. Supposed to be such a steep fine they literally couldn’t afford to do this - not with them already going cash flow negative to build out AI datacenters. So either it’s not applying (why?) or somehow they’re justifying one HUGE fee and somebody is floating them one astronomical loan - which again, why? Where’s the profit in taking that big a risk? Seems absolutely unhinged!
We’re missing something here. Or, at least, I am.
Remember that there was a "one-time fee" exception for "favored clients" (read: friends of Trump), who could pay a single lump-sum of something like $1 million, and then apply for unlimited H-1B's at the old fee structure.
All of these companies are hiring constantly even as they do layoffs so this is an easy story to write every time there are layoffs.
To all the folks here complaining that there is plenty of talent in the US to fill those roles:
Honestly tell me: Would you ever apply to Oracle for a job?
[dead]
This article is deliberately written in a way to aggravate people who do not understand how the visa process works.
Most of these would just be visa renewals. Though it wouldn’t be click bait enough to mention in article title
I personally think that doing a layoff of more than 2% of your workforce or 1000 people, whichever is high, should restrict you from filing for a work visa for a period of 3 years.
Or you can buy your way out of that restriction by paying each laid off worker 3 years of wages.
Pick one.
Oracle is a large company. Many of those laid off were outside the US. This is a non-story.
Not sure this is truly the “Oracle VP of Workforce Economics” posting on X, but it makes a good thread:
https://x.com/gothburz/status/2040142920674656482?s=46
Don't worry, Trump is in Ellison's pocket so this will go through.
H1B is generally a giant scam of Labor Arbitrage
I would expect further H1B crackdowns coming. The $100k fee was just the start.
Good.
I would absolutely not expect this, especially as long as Oracle and all the other technofeudalists are properly paying their taxes to the count and king.
I disagree, I think the $100k fee was a deliberate move to make sure the yearly allocation is only available to large companies like Oracle and out of reach of smaller startups.
Despite the rhetoric the administration is very friendly to big business and will absolutely help them hire cheaply.
Isn’t Larry friends with the administration?
USCIS says they competed the 2027 quota. Is there any evidence all enrolled paid $100k this year ?
Sadly I think you're wrong on this one. Trump's donors benefit from H1B cheap labor. Musk, Elison, etc contributed large sums to Trump's campaign. Just look at Musk's "fuck your own face" tweets from Dec 2024 and you'll see how the people with power feel about this issue. As usual the middle class is being squeezed by the oligarchy.
The 100k fee basically does nothing to curb H1B cheap labor. It's a one-time fee, and when you realize that H1B's can't easily leave their job, it's a fee that easily pays for itself. H1B's are paid less for the same job (just google "are H1B's paid less"), and since they can't easily leave, the reduced turnover saves them money as well. If you think that an employee is likely to stay for 4 years, that's only 25k per year and the fact that they are paid about 15%-20% less than an American, the equation still easily comes out in favor of importing the cheap labor.
It was a move crafted to look like it was cracking down on abuse, but not actually cause any real pain to the companies abusing the system. Hence why all these mega corps are still filing for H1B's even while laying off their American citizen workers.
I hate Oracle as much as the next guy, but this seems like a nothingburger.
Oracle didn’t file “thousands of H1Bs”. Oracle filed 2690 applications in FY2025 (Oct-Sep), and so far filed 436 in FY2026, according to the article.
If anything, this would indicate that Oracle slowed down on hiring foreign workforce. Oct-Mar is half of Oracle’s fiscal year, but they only filed 16% of the H1B applications as in 2025? That seems in line with a hiring freeze and subsequent layoff.
Wherever their major offices are look for newspapers in the small towns nearby advertising for "Software developers for Oracle" all written in the tiniest print, right next to classified that sell used bikes, car parts and other stuff.
- "Well, Uncle Sam, we looked so hard in US and nobody answered our job posts, we have to go to ... $othercountry to hire, there is no other way"
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44880832
https://www.jobs.now/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44892321
Just to cut through the headline here. The largest chunk of Oracle layoffs were in India [1]. In comparison, they've barely fired any American workers.
Contrary to popular opinion, IT workers aren't interchangeable and there exist a large swath of jobs that very few people qualify for (HN should know this) because of the specialization required.
America is at near full employment [2]. Replacing American workers with lower paid foreign workers is already illegal and frequently enforced[3].
This is such a deep distraction but a virulent virus of a narrative, surgically designed to needle our reptilian minds.
[1]: https://www.goodreturns.in/news/tech-layoffs-2025-oracle-cut...
[2]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/269959/employment-in-the...
[3]: https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/whd/whd20180501-2, https://www.dol.gov/newsroom/releases/whd/whd20180501-2
Stanford also filed an H1B this year to hire an IT person.
https://x.com/chrisbrunet/status/2037376353461567734
Apparently, no citizen wants to do this job? Why do we allow things like this?
They have many departments, and are probably reducing some of them while increasing the workforce in others. The idea that they hire 'those damn foreigners' to push down wages is probably true to some degree, but not the whole story. I also don't believe the majority of these H1B are directly hired in other countries for which there is now a $100k fee, but rather people who studied in the US under F1 visa who are exempt from this rule.
What magical skills do the "damn foreigners" have that none of those 30,000 laid off employees don't have? What was the intent of the H1B? To find skills that don't exist in this country. What is H1B actually used for? Labor arbitrage, nepotism, kickbacks. There's really no excuse for defending it anymore.
This whole H1B debacle tells me that people don't like it when employees are not fungible but this sentiment only exists selectively.
The H1B i140 petition thing requires you to advertise the job before submitting the petition. How does this work if the employee is not fungible?
You advertise in small circulation newspapers, I thought this was well known.
> The H1B i140 petition thing requires you to advertise the job before submitting the petition.
You're confusing things. I-140 is a green card application, not H1B.
H1B petition requires the I-129 form and an LCA from the DoL. No advertisement is required, except posting the LCAs in a conspicuous place in the company office.
Turns out it was true all the layoffs were because of AI (actual indians).
Where did my standard of living go? Couldnt possibly have to do with imported labor working around the clock under the threat of being kicked out of the country
Cheap labour producing goods for the native population at low costs should increase your standard of living, no? It makes the products you buy cheaper.
By your logic, if you were the only person in the country, you'd live like a king.
For tech jobs specifically? Compensation has been increasing since the turn of the millennium, what standard of living do you mean? If you mean housing, that's due mainly to NIMBYism from native labor buying and owning houses, especially before the tech boom, not imported labor.
If you want to hire an H1B and claim there is no American to do that job, what about the 30k employees you just laid off? None of them can do the software engineering, sales, HR, etc. that a company like Oracle works on 99% of the time? It's quite schizophrenic for basic engineering companies like Oracle, Cisco, eBay, Paypal, etc. to claim there are no Americans to do the software engineering they require after they lay off thousands and there are millions of American software engineers looking for work.
Schizophrenic?
lots ppl are confused in this comment section. h1b doesnt not require looking for a local first.
Read this guy comment before taking it to this level
https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pj_mukh
I don't understand why American workers would support this program at this scale. Furthermore, I believe universities and other similar researchy/affiliated non-profits are exempt from the hiring caps.
I just cannot imagine executives at tech companies/body shops having any positive ethical motivations. More like "they'll do what we say without complaining or they'll go home". There's no way it's not just a hugely abusive to both pools of workers. The whole thing really feels like another example of the imbalance between labor and capital in the US.
Who originally wanted H-1B/etc? Rich people with money and power? Of course!
workers dont. but dont speak against it either because they are scared of losing heir jobs from accusations of racism.
Because our government is not run for the workers but the owners. Full stop.
It was really easy to support when tech jobs were plentiful, well compensated, and fun.
There's not much preventing you from starting a company and not hiring immigrants.
This is something I'd encourage everyone with strong opinions about work visas to try and accomplish.
You don't change a system by crying about it on anonymous internet forums, you do it by competing against it and making it redundant.
[dead]
No. Abso-f'ing-lutely not, no way, no how. You cannot force me to believe that the talent they're looking for isn't available here already.
Meanwhile this March we saw 15k manufacturing jobs, 26k construction jobs, and 91k healthcare and education jobs added [0].
Those are the voters that matter (unionized, geographically spread out, didn't price everyone else out via remote work) - not SWEs.
[0] - https://www.ft.com/content/82c1795b-704a-4da3-82ec-2f9cd52de...
construction, hospital nurses and daycare workers are the avialble jobs? so depressing and scary
Everyone that supports the H1-B program because they “can’t find talent” is my enemy.
https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pj_mukh
You didn't even try to read the comments to get a context. You assumed you were being attacked and you need to hate immigrants. You are just being manipulated.
And every employer that says they can't find talent fits in the same bucket for me.
There is no issue finding talent. There is only an issue finding talent that is willing to work for the too-low pay you're willing to pay.
It's always puzzled me that layoffs don't result in a temporary bar from using the H1B system like it does for filing PERMs with the DoL.
The H1B has “speciality” categories. You can lay off in one “speciality” while hiring for others. It’s silly but that’s how it’s setup at the moment.
I agree with you. The category list in H1B needs to be trimmed. So that companies have less wiggle room for things like this.
The layoffs were also worldwide. Not sure what the impact to US workers was. India was hit hard.
The US only has two political parties and they are both, secretly, pro immigration.
The EU is actually clamping down on it because of populist/far right parties. I know someone who runs a Thai restaurant and he cannot fly in a cook from Asia. He has to find someone from Europe.
They should also trigger holds on bunch of other operations, like stock buyouts or sales by people with active or recent relationship to the company
When you are puzzled about something, the first step is to find out why something works like it does. :)
With green cards, the government is concerned about permanent residents being dependent on the state if a company ceases to exist or fails to pay salaries or lays people off.
This worry is largely not present for limited term work visas.
The MAGA crowd will be ecstatic. They get fired while their president's buddy gets to hire new workers that are cheaper and more susceptible to extortion. Be careful what you vote for.
Well... If they fact check stuff... The layoffs didn't happen in America
https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pj_mukh
There was no option to vote for which was actually pro-worker. The other side is just as in-favor of these "high skilled" visas, and also even more pro mass-migration of all kinds. The previous admin sued Texas and Arizona to take down their border walls, and sent forklifts to literally open the barbed wire at the border.
There is no evidence that the alternative party would have done anything about this issue.
It is obvious that both parties are completely detached from the interests of their constituents.
That's MAGA for you. They're not even complaining (very much) about super high gas prices. They absolutely excoriated Biden when the price went up even a nickel. MAGA will sacrifice absolutely anything for their king.
The title is extremely deceitful. They filed H1Bs for 2025 and 2026, but not after or during the layoffs from last week.
That’s like saying “Oracle hires tens of thousands and mass layoffs” (* hired during the pandemic)
I suppose we simply disagree, and that is fine. I think the H-1B should be eliminated in favor of the O-1, the domestic labor exists, corporations would simply prefer "optimize their labor costs" and employ workers with reduced mobility via the H-1B. The data is clear from the salaries paid, which is public data.
As I've commented previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46257889 "I am calling for a temporary moratorium for issuing new worker visas based on the current economic macro and existing immigrant worker base in the US companies can pick from, yes. I support the current $100k H-1B fee, in perpetuity. The domestic workforce exists, it is a choice to not pick from the domestic labor pool. Choices have consequences."
The US has an obligation to its citizens, not corporations, not immigrant labor (already on US soil, or desiring to be on US soil). Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context. Again, we may disagree on this, but I think I can find a majority of Americans who do agree with this sentiment (considering the current macro and affordability crisis in the US).
> The US has an obligation to its citizens
In an ideal world the US _is_ it's citizens. Importing thousands of "guest" workers on h1b visas who never end up leaving seems borderline seditious.
Just for reference, if you’re in tech and a senior even in a 2nd tier city, you’re probably not “the little guy”, you’re probably in the top 10% if you make more than around $160K
https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/
> Shareholder returns go to the top 10% of Americans (who own 90% of US equities), so any argument about prosperity impairment from impaired immigration is going to fall on deaf ears in this context.
"We fail to tax our corporations adequately, so the proceeds of rampant deregulation and profiteering don't benefit the general populace".
I don't necessarily disagree with your stance but this seems like a weak justification (it's pragmatic, to be fair)
Keep in mind that employers have to pay $100,000 in visa fees (in addition to competitive salaries) for each H-1B visa. Clearly these immigrants are not undercutting US workers. It is $100K cheaper to hire a US worker.
Unless they get waivers, which I'm sure Larry has worked out with his buddy.
to clear up confusion, this 100k applies to brand new h1b petitions outside the country.
if you are already in the US it currently does not apply to you, or if you are transferring jobs with an existing h1b, or renewing your h1b.
source: former h1b
side note: as of february it’s estimated only 85 h1b petitions paid the 100k fee. the rest did not fall under the qualification.
https://www.staffingindustry.com/news/global-daily-news/1000...
America has an H1b invasion problem
I find the topic of the morality or effectiveness of having a H-1B a little bit intractable to reason about rationally. Consider a simplified model of the system.
You have 2 countries, C1 and C2.
Scenario 1: C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs. C1 only has 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs.
The wages of C1 go up because there is more demand than supply.
Scenario 2: C1 has enough demand for 100 tech jobs. C1 only has 50 qualified natives for 100 tech jobs.
Now you put in a H1-B visa program that will pay the same as the prevalent wage as a local native. C2 has enough candidates to fill the other 50 positions.
The wages of C1 will NOT go up because now supply matches demand.
Is Scenario 2 fair? Who gets to decide what fair is? Given the above system, I think I would argue that H1-B visa programs cause wage deflation in C1, even if it is filling jobs that would not be filled and even if the jobs paid the exact same as someone working in the native country.
I am not dogmatic about that though. Willing to hear a counterpoint to scenario 2.
Did oracle manage to circumvent 100k payment per H1B applicant?
Also, why they need to do H1B instead of just outsourcing abroad?
What I’m not clear on - how many of these H1B hires are subject to the EO that jacked up the fee to $100k per person? Assuming even just 100 of them were, that’s still ten million USD (assuming I didn’t visualize the zeroes in my head wrong…), and a really large fee to justify to the board if you’re otherwise paying “roughly the same” in salary. Productivity is going to basically break even anyway after a few years.
This is why I’m wondering: did the EO get blocked, paused for judicial review or something? Is it even in effect?
No intention to make this political, I’m legitimately curious about the status of the law and its actual applicability here. Supposed to be such a steep fine they literally couldn’t afford to do this - not with them already going cash flow negative to build out AI datacenters. So either it’s not applying (why?) or somehow they’re justifying one HUGE fee and somebody is floating them one astronomical loan - which again, why? Where’s the profit in taking that big a risk? Seems absolutely unhinged!
We’re missing something here. Or, at least, I am.
Remember that there was a "one-time fee" exception for "favored clients" (read: friends of Trump), who could pay a single lump-sum of something like $1 million, and then apply for unlimited H-1B's at the old fee structure.
All of these companies are hiring constantly even as they do layoffs so this is an easy story to write every time there are layoffs.
To all the folks here complaining that there is plenty of talent in the US to fill those roles:
Honestly tell me: Would you ever apply to Oracle for a job?
[dead]
This article is deliberately written in a way to aggravate people who do not understand how the visa process works.
Most of these would just be visa renewals. Though it wouldn’t be click bait enough to mention in article title